Cameras and Lenses
Nikon 8x32SE, 8x32EDG, Zeiss 8x42FL and Zen-Ray 7x36 ED2 at the OK Corral
Here is my 4-way binocular shootout. I'm posting it here rather than in the Other forum because it involves two new bins that would be individually covered in different fora. I did not look at resolution charts or read the Miami Herald through these bins, but I did spend a good long time looking at birds and other natural objects through them. I also did not mount them on tripods, because I don't use binoculars like these on tripods in real life. I have long familiarity with the 8x42 Fls and the Nikon 8x32 SEs so I didn’t learn much new by reauditioning them. I had the Nikon 8x32 EDGs for about 3 weeks and have spent most of the past day and a half with the Zen-Ray ED2s in conditions ranging from twilight, nighttime, and dawn to mixed illumination to strong sunlight over water. The task this evening is to fit the ED2s in among the others where they belong:
Color and visible chromatic aberration:
I’m talking naked-eye performance here, no booster involved.
1) Zen-Ray 7x36 ED2—no visible CA in the inner 75% of the field of view, and only moderate amounts in the outer fringe. The combination of low magnification and ED glass pays off. Slight reddish bias, reminiscent of the SE, that might contribute to their high apparent contrast.
1) Zeiss 8x42 FL—no visible CA in the centerfield, but slight amounts become apparent off axis. Neutral color presentation, maybe a hint of yellow.
3) Nikon EDG 8x32—no visible CA in the central 2/3 of the field, but distinct chartreuse and violet fringes apparent in the outer third in high contrast situations. Very similar color presentation to the SE, but with less CA toward the center field.
4) Nikon SE 8x32—very slight CA visible even in the center field if the eye is not well centered. CA becomes gradually more pronounced toward the edges. Not enough to bother me anywhere, though. Faint reddish bias.
Glare/control of stray light:
This was observed mainly by looking at the near vicinity of the moon and other bright sources at night. I’m not a fan of looking near the sun with binoculars.
1) Nikon EDG 8x32—superb. Objectives are set in pretty deep and are further shrouded by the ends of the flip-up lenscaps, and the internal baffling must be very good.
1-) Zeiss 8x42 FL—very nearly as good as the EDGs.
3) Nikon 8x32 SE—I could induce distinct lunar glare much further from the moon than either of the above two.
4) Zen-Ray 7x36 ED2—presence of distinct glare in edges of the field of view noted in other ED2 models appears in these as well, in level viewing under overcast skies. Shading the objectives greatly reduces but curiously does not eliminate the grey crescent—viewing a variably illuminated scene from deep shade several feet inside my roofed, screened patio it was strongly present, and even encroached toward the center field at times. Further shading the objectives with my hand somehow greatly reduced the crescent but did not eliminate it—this required putting my hand out much further than a Bushwhacker or Butler Creek rim would reach. Evidently strong illumination, such as reflected light from concrete or water in the foreground near or within the field of view can produce this kind of glare. Maybe not a fatal handicap, but it is very distracting. In A-B-C comparisons I could induce this crescent only very faintly and with effort in the Fls and not at all in the SE’s. The ED2s also show glare induced by point sources and minor internal reflections more readily than the top bins.
Resolution:
All four of these binoculars have very fine center field resolution in normal lighting conditions. These are listed in order of my naked-eye evaluation of their center field performance—edge sharpness would follow a different order.
1) Nikon 8x32 SE—Very sharp and broad sweet spot with decent sharpness to the edge, low astigmatism. Right barrel focuses stars to tiny dots, left not quite as good. Slightly better contrast than the Zeiss brings out fine detail. Resolution remains useful to the edge of the field in daytime viewing. If I want to distinguish the black eye in the cardinal’s black mask at 40 yards, this is still my choice.
1-) Zeiss 8x42 FL—Super resolution in the center field and a good sweet spot. Image degrades sharply in the outer 10% of the field. A tiny amount of coma in the left barrel. A smidge less contrast than the SE.
3) Zen-Ray 7x36 ED2—Amazing center field resolution and contrast for a 7x bin, to the naked eye. Backyard birds and waterbirds beautifully rendered when centered. Stars and a broadly illuminated planet Venus resolved well with very slight astigmatism. Off-axis performance not quite as good as the Nikons--sweet spot is proportionally the narrowest mainly due to field curvature, with sharpness starting to degrade halfway to the edge of field, and resolution degrades badly in the outer 10-15% of the field (the worst edge performance in the group by a definite margin—the super wide field spec might be better reduced with a slightly narrower field stop). In daylight it is still possible to get pretty good resolution near the edges by refocusing.
4) Nikon 8x32 EDG—Very good center field resolution and broad sweet spot. Even sharper at the edge than the SE. Some coma in left barrel center field. On stars, neither barrel was quite as sharp as the left SE barrel. In a very high quality group and by a very narrow margin, these came out worst in center field resolution and best on the edges.
Brightness:
Apples to oranges here due to differences in designs and exit pupils, but comparisons in evening/dusk viewing pan out like this:
1) Zeiss 8x42 FL—the combination of larger exit pupil and Abbe-Koenig prisms is tops. Useful in twilight for several minutes after either of the 32mm bins and retrieved detail in deep shadows the best of all.
2) Zen-Ray 7x36ED2—Neck and neck with the Zeisses for resolving shadow detail. Just visibly less bright than the Zeisses in dim conditions, perhaps due to difference in prism design, but a close second place.
3) Nikon 8x32 SE—These are a notch below the Zeisses and Zen-Rays due to smaller exit pupil, but are still the brightest 8x32s I’ve ever looked through. Distinctly brighter in low light than any 8x32 roof.
4) Nikon 8x32 EDG—A notch dimmer than the SEs, and so equivalent to other alpha 8x32 roofs like the Zeiss 8x32 Fls and 8x32 Ultravids. Along with dimmer overall view, the ability to resolve detail in deep shadows also is definitely reduced compared with larger aperture binoculars. This is my dilemma with the 8x32 roof format. Birders are not so concerned with low-light performance and in any decent light conditions these are very fine binoculars. But hunters love the dim witching hours and none of the 8x32 alpha roofs I’ve tried quite deliver the goods.
Tactile/build quality:
1) Nikon EDG 8x32—solid, grippy armor, smooth operating, quick focusing (6’ to infinity in 1 turn) that made viewing birds in flight relatively easy, plenty of eye relief, these feel so good they make your fingers tingle. It’s possible to dislodge the hinged, flip-up objective cap from its base if you bump it sharply when it’s open (it goes right back on). Interesting, quick-adjust neck strap, and the click-on IPD-adjustable ocular rainguard I like very much. Plenty of eye relief for anyone. Center focus knob slides up to uncover the diopter adjustment—it still slides up a little too easily but there is a detent now and I no longer think it’s as big a deal as it was on the 7x42.
2) Zeiss 8x42 FL—Plasticky feel has been much remarked on, but light and quick focusing, and in use they’ve proven to be tough and ergonomic. Good neckstrap and ocular rainguard supplied, and excellent tethered objective covers, made of thick, high-quality rubber so they won’t fall off and get lost. Plenty of eye relief for most eyeglass wearers. Diopter adjustment in the center focus knob.
3) Zen-Ray 7x36 ED2—Good, no-nonsense finish without the earlier zowie-inducing red and white graphics, lightweight, and felt good in my hands. Smooth focus with good resistance but still a trifle slow (1-1/4 turns from close focus (about 4’
to infinity, and slow travel in the near field). Shallow (i.e., good) thumb indents. Neck strap still inexplicably too long, but now not unusable. Objective covers still garbage, though upgraded covers are allegedly on the way. Ample eye relief for my bifocals. Diopter adjusts by a ring on the right barrel—simple, set and forget.
4) Nikon SE 8x32—Old school construction, fold-down eyecups, not immersion proof, and slowish focus by modern standards, but these are light, compact, smooth operating and rugged, and the beveled porro shape feels great in the hand. Accessories are of decent quality but are dated. Plenty of eye relief, too much for some people considering the fold-down eyecup design. Diopter adjusts by turning the right ocular and requires resetting from time to time.
Overall:
I’m not going to produce an overall ranking, because the above factors matter to different degrees to different users, and the subjects vary in price by a factor of 5 even including maximum discounts. In my subjective case the newcomers did not unseat my existing go-to bins, the Zeiss Fls and the Nikon SEs. The EDGs have gone back to the retailer—a very fine binocular but the bottom line is that they are heavier than the ED2s and the SEs and less bright than either.
The jury is out on the Zens. Their strengths (center field sharpness and contrast, brightness, color rendition) are in areas that are very important to me. Their weaknesses (edge sharpness, stray light control and slowish focus) are in areas that don’t usually fuss me very much. They are substantially brighter than any 8x32 roof I’ve ever owned or auditioned, they have enough magnification to provide excellent center field resolution, and they weigh the same as the SEs and 2 oz less than the EDGs. However, the stray light problem is a serious demerit and I will have to use them for a couple of weeks before I decide whether it’s a deal-breaker. I know the argument has been advanced that this only appears when the bins are tilted up at the sky or the eye is not centered. Tilting them upward from the horizontal does aggravate the problem, but in my 35 years or so of using binoculars I’ve found that birds not uncommonly appear above the horizontal, what with being able to fly and all. The argument that a particular bin is perfect but that I’m holding it wrong or looking at the wrong things with it is not persuasive. They either do the job for me or they don’t.
I’ll make up my mind on these pretty soon, because I’m quite tired of looking through binoculars to find their optical flaws. It’s time for the fall migration!
Thank you for posting the comparative review fireform. Much appreciated. I received a great deal of enjoyment sitting here reading it this evening. I am surprised, after 40-odd views, that nobody else has responded. I liked the format and the fact that you did not draw any "ranking conclusions" at the end. Leave it up to the individual to determine what they find and don't find important in your observations.
The results don't surprise me that much. I think it depends on what your expectations are and what you value in a binocular. I am happy to see the SE still hold its own and actually excel compared to some of the "latest and greatest" roofs. I am also happy to see an up and comer stand with the big boys and fair reasonably well also.
[QUOTE=Fireform;1559728]Here is my 4-way binocular shootout. I'm posting it here rather than in the Other forum because it involves two new bins that would be individually covered in different fora. I did not look at resolution charts or read the Miami Herald through these bins, but I did spend a good long time looking at birds and other natural objects through them. I also did not mount them on tripods, because I don't use binoculars like these on tripods in real life. I have long familiarity with the 8x42 Fls and the Nikon 8x32 SEs so I didn’t learn much new by reauditioning them. I had the Nikon 8x32 EDGs for about 3 weeks and have spent most of the past day and a half with the Zen-Ray ED2s in conditions ranging from twilight, nighttime, and dawn to mixed illumination to strong sunlight over water. The task this evening is to fit the ED2s in among the others where they belong:
Color and visible chromatic aberration:
I’m talking naked-eye performance here, no booster involved.
1) Zen-Ray 7x36 ED2—no visible CA in the inner 75% of the field of view, and only moderate amounts in the outer fringe. The combination of low magnification and ED glass pays off. Slight reddish bias, reminiscent of the SE, that might contribute to their high apparent contrast.
1) Zeiss 8x42 FL—no visible CA in the centerfield, but slight amounts become apparent off axis. Neutral color presentation, maybe a hint of yellow.
3) Nikon EDG 8x32—no visible CA in the central 2/3 of the field, but distinct chartreuse and violet fringes apparent in the outer third in high contrast situations. Very similar color presentation to the SE, but with less CA toward the center field.
4) Nikon SE 8x32—very slight CA visible even in the center field if the eye is not well centered. CA becomes gradually more pronounced toward the edges. Not enough to bother me anywhere, though. Faint reddish bias.
Glare/control of stray light:
This was observed mainly by looking at the near vicinity of the moon and other bright sources at night. I’m not a fan of looking near the sun with binoculars.
1) Nikon EDG 8x32—superb. Objectives are set in pretty deep and are further shrouded by the ends of the flip-up lenscaps, and the internal baffling must be very good.
1-) Zeiss 8x42 FL—very nearly as good as the EDGs.
3) Nikon 8x32 SE—I could induce distinct lunar glare much further from the moon than either of the above two.
4) Zen-Ray 7x36 ED2—presence of distinct glare in edges of the field of view noted in other ED2 models appears in these as well, in level viewing under overcast skies. Shading the objectives greatly reduces but curiously does not eliminate the grey crescent—viewing a variably illuminated scene from deep shade several feet inside my roofed, screened patio it was strongly present, and even encroached toward the center field at times. Further shading the objectives with my hand somehow greatly reduced the crescent but did not eliminate it—this required putting my hand out much further than a Bushwhacker or Butler Creek rim would reach. Evidently strong illumination, such as reflected light from concrete or water in the foreground near or within the field of view can produce this kind of glare. Maybe not a fatal handicap, but it is very distracting. In A-B-C comparisons I could induce this crescent only very faintly and with effort in the Fls and not at all in the SE’s. The ED2s also show glare induced by point sources and minor internal reflections more readily than the top bins.
Resolution:
All four of these binoculars have very fine center field resolution in normal lighting conditions. These are listed in order of my naked-eye evaluation of their center field performance—edge sharpness would follow a different order.
1) Nikon 8x32 SE—Very sharp and broad sweet spot with decent sharpness to the edge, low astigmatism. Right barrel focuses stars to tiny dots, left not quite as good. Slightly better contrast than the Zeiss brings out fine detail. Resolution remains useful to the edge of the field in daytime viewing. If I want to distinguish the black eye in the cardinal’s black mask at 40 yards, this is still my choice.
1-) Zeiss 8x42 FL—Super resolution in the center field and a good sweet spot. Image degrades sharply in the outer 10% of the field. A tiny amount of coma in the left barrel. A smidge less contrast than the SE.
3) Zen-Ray 7x36 ED2—Amazing center field resolution and contrast for a 7x bin, to the naked eye. Backyard birds and waterbirds beautifully rendered when centered. Stars and a broadly illuminated planet Venus resolved well with very slight astigmatism. Off-axis performance is another story--sweet spot is proportionally the narrowest, with sharpness starting to degrade halfway to the edge of field, and resolution degrades badly in the outer 10-15% of the field (the worst edge performance in the group by a definite margin—the super wide field spec might be better reduced with a slightly narrower field stop).
4) Nikon 8x32 EDG—Very good center field resolution and broad sweet spot. Even sharper at the edge than the SE. Some coma in left barrel center field. On stars, neither barrel was quite as sharp as the left SE barrel. In a very high quality group and by a very narrow margin, these came out worst in center field resolution and best on the edges.
Brightness:
Apples to oranges here due to differences in designs and exit pupils, but comparisons in evening/dusk viewing pan out like this:
1) Zeiss 8x42 FL—the combination of larger exit pupil and Abbe-Koenig prisms is tops. Useful in twilight for several minutes after either of the 32mm bins and retrieved detail in deep shadows the best of all.
2) Zen-Ray 7x36ED2—Neck and neck with the Zeisses for resolving shadow detail. Just visibly less bright than the Zeisses in dim conditions, perhaps due to difference in prism design, but a close second place.
3) Nikon 8x32 SE—These are a notch below the Zeisses and Zen-Rays due to smaller exit pupil, but are still the brightest 8x32s I’ve ever looked through. Distinctly brighter in low light than any 8x32 roof.
4) Nikon 8x32 EDG—A notch dimmer than the SEs, and so equivalent to other alpha 8x32 roofs like the Zeiss 8x32 Fls and 8x32 Ultravids. Along with dimmer overall view, the ability to resolve detail in deep shadows also is definitely reduced compared with larger aperture binoculars. This is my dilemma with the 8x32 roof format. Birders are not so concerned with low-light performance and in any decent light conditions these are very fine binoculars. But hunters love the dim witching hours and none of the 8x32 alpha roofs I’ve tried quite deliver the goods.
Tactile/build quality:
1) Nikon EDG 8x32—solid, grippy armor, smooth operating, quick focusing (6’ to infinity in 1 turn) that made viewing birds in flight relatively easy, plenty of eye relief, these feel so good they make your fingers tingle. It’s possible to dislodge the hinged, flip-up objective cap from its base if you bump it sharply when it’s open (it goes right back on). Interesting, quick-adjust neck strap, and the click-on IPD-adjustable ocular rainguard I like very much. Plenty of eye relief for anyone. Center focus knob slides up to uncover the diopter adjustment—it still slides up a little too easily but there is a detent now and I no longer think it’s as big a deal as it was on the 7x42.
2) Zeiss 8x42 FL—Plasticky feel has been much remarked on, but light and quick focusing, and in use they’ve proven to be tough and ergonomic. Good neckstrap and ocular rainguard supplied, and excellent tethered objective covers, made of thick, high-quality rubber so they won’t fall off and get lost. Plenty of eye relief for most eyeglass wearers. Diopter adjustment in the center focus knob.
3) Zen-Ray 7x36 ED2—Good, no-nonsense finish without the earlier zowie-inducing red and white graphics, lightweight, and felt good in my hands. Smooth focus with good resistance but still a trifle slow (1-1/4 turns from close focus (about 4’) to infinity, and slow travel in the near field). Shallow (i.e., good) thumb indents. Neck strap still inexplicably too long, but now not unusable. Objective covers still garbage, though upgraded covers are allegedly on the way. Ample eye relief for my bifocals. Diopter adjusts by a ring on the right barrel—simple, set and forget.
4) Nikon SE 8x32—Old school construction, fold-down eyecups, not immersion proof, and slowish focus by modern standards, but these are light, compact, smooth operating and rugged, and the beveled porro shape feels great in the hand. Accessories are of decent quality but are dated. Plenty of eye relief, too much for some people considering the fold-down eyecup design. Diopter adjusts by turning the right ocular and requires resetting from time to time.
Overall:
I’m not going to produce an overall ranking, because the above factors matter to different degrees to different users, and the subjects vary in price by a factor of 5 even including maximum discounts. In my subjective case the newcomers did not unseat my existing go-to bins, the Zeiss Fls and the Nikon SEs. The EDGs have gone back to the retailer—a very fine binocular but the bottom line is that they are heavier than the ED2s and the SEs and less bright than either.
The jury is out on the Zens. Their strengths (center field sharpness and contrast, brightness, color rendition) are in areas that are very important to me. Their weaknesses (edge sharpness, stray light control and slowish focus) are in areas that don’t usually fuss me very much. They are substantially brighter than any 8x32 roof I’ve ever owned or auditioned, they have enough magnification to provide excellent center field resolution, and they weigh the same as the SEs and 2 oz less than the EDGs. However, the stray light problem is a serious demerit and I will have to use them for a couple of weeks before I decide whether it’s a deal-breaker. I know the argument has been advanced that this only appears when the bins are tilted up at the sky or the eye is not centered. Tilting them upward from the horizontal does aggravate the problem, but in my 35 years or so of using binoculars I’ve found that birds not uncommonly appear above the horizontal, what with being able to fly and all. The argument that a particular bin is perfect but that I’m holding it wrong or looking at the wrong things with it is not persuasive. They either do the job for me or they don’t.
I’ll make up my mind on these pretty soon, because I’m quite tired of looking through binoculars to find their optical flaws. It’s time for the fall migration![/QUOTE]
Nice review and comparison Fireform! One of the best I have ever seen on Bird Forum. Let us know if the Zen Ray's are keepers for you. Too me this kind of review is much more meaningful because as you say you don't use binoculars on a tripod when you are birding. I haven't tried the Nikon EDG but I have tried the other three and I agree with everything you say. The resolution and brightness on those Nikon 8x32 SE's are amazing for a 32mm aren't they. Sorry to hear the strap is still too long on the Zens and it sounds like they are sending you improved objective covers. When did you get your Zen Rays 7x36ED2? I still haven't received mine yet.
Dennis